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 Post subject: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:09 am 
Droid
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hey guys

im new to the forum and am thinking of studying 3d.

heres whats stopping me:
1 - ive heard its really hard to get a job (even for the highly educated and ppl with great reels)
2 - its all contract work (heard if ppl get a job then they would have it for two weeks then spend 6 months looking for another one)
3 - work and income advises ppl not to study at media design school (probably because graduates end up on the dole)
4 - in nz they expect you to know everything from modeling to compositing and every piece of software out there thats remotely related to production

its been my dream to do 3d but at the end of the day its all about money. i would like to be able to buy food once in a while (and own my home one day) and not have to take a job at foodtown in between jobs.

any graduates having trouble finding work? if you are, i would love to see your reels and get some feedback/advise to get some insight into this.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:32 am 
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it is very hard in nz. i studied for 5 years & worked as a editor shortly after i finished so i was familiar with 3d, post production, web/graphic design. the jobs were few & far between. my wife has degenerative disc disease & it was a real struggle trying to support both of us.

after a year the mrs & i struck a deal, another 6 months, if still no regular work then we'd spend a year in thailand. guess where i am now?

if you do decide to go ahead with the studies then you should be prepared to go overseas.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:32 am 
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Hey crazMooolgle, welcome to the forum. In reply to your questions...

1. It can be hard to get a job, but sometimes it's not that tricky. Often it depends on timing - if no one is hiring, then it doesn't matter how good your reel is. On the flip side, I see people with relatively poor reels getting work because they don't charge much and some clients refuse to pay a lot to hire uber talented people. You do have to put a lot of effort into maintaining your work and sending out reels until you land a job, but it's no more effort than you'd be putting into a job if you had one!

I think if you pursue 3D, you should REALLY want to do it. It is a lot of commitment and it can be a long road. But the payoff is usually pretty awesome... when you get there.

2. It is mostly contract work these days. There are a number of small - medium sized companies that hire permanant staff. I know a number of people that recently got into permanant spots. Weta definitely hires on contract only. It's the nature of this business. And as donaldQuack said, be prepared to travel if you want the work to keep coming in. Often you'll hear about jobs in Aus and jump across the ditch for a year, then come back to NZ etc.

3. Really?? Did they actually tell you that in person? For Media Design School to exist at all, they require something like a 75% (or 80?) placement rate. That means they either get work or continue studying in a similar field. Some grads get hand picked from MDS before they even finish the course... but again, timing and quality of work is a big thing - those grads are normally very arty and dedicated.

4. Not so much any more. Small companies might need you to know general stuff like modelling, texturing and animating, but even then small companies usually can break the team up into specific strengths. Mostly though, you'll find you can get most places with strengths in just a few areas. Because of the 'contract work', many companies look for people with very specific skills - they will hire one person just for their animation skills and another just to model. Also, you'll find it best to learn the popular software, not every type. NZ, being as small as it is, seems to focus on particular programs. Maya and 3DS are very standard, some places use Lightwave (but the ones I know about have Maya or 3DS too).


Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:38 am 
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For me personally, I did a 3D course simply because I wanted to. I was something that I thought looked cool (and it was) and was another reason to expand my knowledge. Even if you don't find a job afterwards, it doesn't mean you've taken a step backwards, infact it's almost the opposite - it's not like you lose all the skills you had before the course, but you've gained new ones, even if it does just become a hobby you'll be happier because of it. Now, you say it's all about the money (which is fair enough), but what would you do if you didn't go and follow your dream and do the 3D course and is there any reason you couldn't do that after the course? It's not like life stops because you make one decision. If you don't follow what you want to do you can very easily find yourself in an unfulfilled rut. For me life has always been about the pursuit of knowledge and experience, and it's very hard to get either of those by being conservative. :)


/rant

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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:15 am 
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crazMooogle wrote:

work and income advises ppl not to study at media design school (probably because graduates end up on the dole)



Hey Mooogle, the same thing happened to me while I was at studylink arranging my student allowance.

If it's been your dream to do 3D then go for it. The diploma course is just one year. Actually not even that, it's ten months. We can all afford ten months of our time to pursue a dream don't we? If you're still unsure whether you'd like to study or not you can always install Maya, download some tutorials and see if it's really 'you'.

Like evoboy said life is about knowledge and experience. I know a woman in her seventies who has several degrees, diplomas etc and she is always out there learning something new. But then again she could do so freely because she is financially secure and haven't had to work in the last thirty years.

If you do go ahead and it's not 'you' then it can be your hobby like evoboy suggested. Even though for me personally it's a very expensive hobby, I don't have any regrets about studying 3d at MDS (yet ;) ).


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:32 am 
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so ngan are you currently working and do you have a link to your demoreel?


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 am 
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To 3d or not to 3d?? hell yea 3d!! :D if its something your into or something you really want to do theres really only one choice.....take the red pill and see how far the rabbit hole goes!! 8-) good luck

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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:38 am 
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crazMooogle wrote:
so ngan are you currently working and do you have a link to your demoreel?

Nope, I'm doing something else. I still want to keep going but like you, I do like to be able to buy food on occassion.
http://www.nganthewebsite.com/demoReel/ ... May08.html


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:41 am 
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If you already have a basic knowlege of 3d and/or a nice art base then I'd say go for Mds, I did and it worked for me. If you're starting from scratch I'd say you need a longer more in depth course of study. Of course there are those naturally talented freaks out there so if you think you're one of them Mds will do ya fine.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:09 pm 
Droid
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guess what your asking is not should you or where should you study 3d but more what happens afterwards if you go for it.
ngan mentioned itl be a expensive hobby. it will be if nothing comes of it, especially if you have (or planning to have) a family. from your 1st post im guessing you have responsibilities and not young and fancy free. if you have commitments you dont want to struggle too long or take on another job while doing 3d until the wee hours in the morning.

so these are legitimate worries/questions but no one knows what going to happen to this industry in the next few years. the marketing departments in all the institutes have and will continue to led you to believe its thriving [now and forever]. it bloody well could be. but right now it aint so great and ive heard most of my old classmates never got there. who knows, you might be a natural genius and get snapped up quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:04 pm 
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Hello crazMooogle
I teach life drawing and the majority of my students have a 3D background. According to my students, looking for employment has always been a challenge. If you do not pursue this, most likely you will wonder what could have been. Based on what my students have done, my advice is to explore other avenues as well. Try flash, web design, film making, post production etc. There are many short courses out there. What is your second dream? If times are tough in 3D, you can always do that while in between 3D employment.
I had a student who was a self employed plumber and did that when there was no 3D work.
Of course it wont be as easy as it sounds, depending on the nature of the other job.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:43 pm 
Droid
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thank you guys {and girl} for the replies. and yeah, your right. i do have commitments and cant do whatever i want just for kicks. youve given me some great points/advice here.

Worzel wrote:
1. It can be hard to get a job, but sometimes it's not that tricky. Often it depends on timing - if no one is hiring, then it doesn't matter how good your reel is.

question;
all about timing right. so if a reel is really good do they get put away on the shelf and are taken off when a job needs to be done? what im hearing from ppl {mostly in australia} are they dont. companies prefer to wait for the next lot of reels to arrive rather than walking to the shelf. it seems so lazy if this is true.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:48 pm 
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Worzel wrote:

3. Really?? Did they actually tell you that in person? For Media Design School to exist at all, they require something like a 75% (or 80?) placement rate. That means they either get work or continue studying in a similar field. Some grads get hand picked from MDS before they even finish the course... but again, timing and quality of work is a big thing - those grads are normally very arty and dedicated.

was on the benefit months ago and mentioned i was considering going back to school rather than finding work. the dude i had my appointment with said he seen ppl from mds coming thru on the dole all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:46 am 
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I doubt that companies have the time to wade through old reels. They probably keep them there just in case someone says "hey, remember that reel from that guy that did that thing... we could use him now". It's always best to send in a new reel. That way you keep yourself active and improving because you're forced to keep working on new stuff.

I would say the reason for the high dole stats is that MDS has a high volume intake so there are simply more students from MDS looking for work than other schools. Many of the MDS students have also come from other 3D schools because their education was not up to scratch.

It seems quite narrow minded of WINZ to tell people to go to other schools to study 3D without knowing 'why' they get MDS students coming in, or without knowing the standard of teaching/output that comes from many of those schools they might suggest. If you're good at 3D and you make it through the MDS course, then you definitely have the skills to get a job in this industry. Some of the MDS grads have stepped into some really good jobs, but for others, the job opportunity simply wasn't there.

Oh, and just for interest sake (and without naming names)... I was recently looking at the website of another school in Auckland and I found they did not have a single correct spelling of the term 'NURBS'. They outlined it several times in their curriculum as 'N
ERBS'. I find that rather shocking coming from an educational provider. Seems like they don't know what NURBS are, but they've heard other people say it! I hope WINZ isn't sending people there. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: To do 3d or not to do 3d
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:10 am 
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My two cents -

What a freakin' joke that govt. departments are trying to dissuade people from studying at MDS - especially if they are sending students to other Auckland 3D Providers... There are a LOT of other schools they should be warning people about.

We think what we do in teaching 3D at Lifeway College has some special punch but we consider MDS as a noble competitor and openly tell interested students that MDS and Lifeway are really the only two options in New Zealand for people serious about specialist 3D training.

Of course we want people to study at Lifeway College but would prefer them at MDS rather tan anyone else if Lifeway didnt work out for them.

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